September 3, 2026
Host
Welcome back to the Toxic Podcast, everyone. I'm Pastor Jake O'Connell, and today we're tackling a question that so many of you have sent in: no contact versus low contact with a narcissist—which one is right for you? And to help us unpack this, I'm joined by Shannon L. Alder, relationship life coach and author of the best-selling book, The Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Bible. Shannon, it's great to have you back on the show.
Guest
Thanks, Jake. I'm really glad to be here. This is a topic that comes up constantly in my coaching sessions and in the messages I get from readers, so I think we're going to give people a lot of clarity today.
Host
Absolutely. So let's start with the big picture. When someone is dealing with a narcissist—whether it's an ex, a family member, or even a coworker—what's the general rule of thumb? Is no contact always the best approach, or are there exceptions?
Guest
Well, Jake, in most cases, yes, no contact is the gold standard. It gives your nervous system a chance to reset, it stops the cycle of manipulation, and it allows you to reclaim your identity without constant interference. But there's a huge caveat: if you share children with the narcissist, no contact isn't always possible. Then you have to shift to low contact, which is a completely different strategy.
Host
Right, because you can't just disappear when there are kids involved. So how do you navigate that? What does low contact actually look like in day-to-day life?
Guest
Low contact means you limit communication to only what's absolutely necessary for co-parenting. You use a parenting app like OurFamilyWizard, you keep conversations brief and business-like, you don't engage in emotional bait, and you set firm boundaries. It's about protecting your peace while still fulfilling your responsibilities as a parent.
Host
That makes a lot of sense. And I think a lot of people struggle with guilt around this, especially Christians. They think, 'If I'm supposed to love my enemies and turn the other cheek, how can I just cut someone off?' But the Bible actually gives us a ton of wisdom on this. Jesus didn't hang around bad people all the time. He walked away from crowds to rest undisturbed. He wasn't a doormat.
Guest
That's such an important point, Jake. So many survivors feel like they're being unchristian by setting boundaries, but that's not what Scripture teaches at all. Jesus modeled healthy boundaries. He withdrew when he needed to, he didn't let everyone walk all over him, and he confronted wrongdoing when necessary.
Host
Exactly. Think about the story in the temple. Jesus didn't just politely ask the money changers to leave. He turned over their tables and drove them out with a whip. That's not a passive, doormat Jesus. That's a Jesus who stood up against exploitation and abuse. So walking away from someone who hurts you isn't unchristlike—it's actually following his example.
Guest
And that's so freeing for people to hear, because the church sometimes gets this wrong. They preach endless forgiveness without boundaries, and that keeps people trapped in toxic relationships. But Jesus never said, 'Let people abuse you forever.' He said, 'Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.' Wisdom means protecting yourself and your children.
Host
Amen. Let me share a few scripture stories that illustrate this. In Luke chapter 4, when Jesus was in Nazareth, the people got so angry at his teaching that they tried to throw him off a cliff. What did he do? He passed through the crowd and went on his way. He didn't stick around to be hurt. He removed himself from the situation. That's a powerful example of walking away from danger.
Guest
That's a great one. And there's also the story of David and Saul. Saul was trying to kill David out of jealousy, and David didn't just sit there and take it. He fled, he hid, and he even had opportunities to kill Saul but chose not to. But he didn't stay in Saul's presence to be abused. He kept his distance while still respecting Saul as God's anointed.
Host
Right, and that's key. David respected Saul's position, but he didn't subject himself to Saul's abuse. He maintained boundaries while still honoring God. So for someone today dealing with a narcissist, you can forgive them, you can pray for them, but you don't have to let them keep hurting you. That's not love; that's enabling.
Guest
And that's where the rubber meets the road for co-parents. You can't go fully no contact, but you can go low contact. You can communicate only about the kids, keep it factual, and refuse to engage in their drama. It's not easy, but it's necessary for your sanity and your children's well-being.
Host
Absolutely. And I want to be crystal clear: choosing no contact or low contact doesn't make you a bad Christian. It makes you a wise one. You're looking out for your children and your spirit to be happy and healthy. That's not selfish; that's stewardship of the life God gave you.
Guest
I love that framing, Jake. Stewardship. Because if you're constantly drained and traumatized by a narcissist, you can't be the parent or the person God called you to be. Protecting your peace is an act of faith, not a lack of it.
Host
So Shannon, you've been open about your own journey with narcissistic abuse. Can you share a bit about your experience with no contact versus low contact? I know you've mentioned that you didn't go no contact with your ex, and that had some real challenges.
Guest
Yeah, Jake, I'll be honest. I didn't go no contact with my narcissistic ex. And looking back, I wish I had, but at the time, I didn't fully understand what I was dealing with. And the hardest part was that he was hoovering me—trying to suck me back in—while I was engaged to my now-husband. He was trying to win me back, and it was emotionally exhausting because I no longer believed a word he said. I wasn't a person to him; I was a prize to be won.
Host
That sounds incredibly difficult. How did you handle that? What did you learn from that experience that you can pass on to our listeners?
Guest
I learned that even when you don't go no contact, you have to enforce strict boundaries. I had to be very clear that I was moving on, that I was engaged, and that his attempts to reconnect were not welcome. It was hard because he knew exactly what buttons to push, but I had to remind myself that his words were just manipulation. I wasn't a prize; I was a person with worth and dignity.
Host
And that's such an important message for our listeners. Whether you choose no contact or low contact, the goal is the same: to reclaim your identity and stop being a pawn in their game. You are not a prize to be won; you are a child of God, created in his image.
Guest
Exactly. And for those who are co-parenting, you can't fully escape, but you can minimize the damage. Use a third-party app, keep conversations short, and never let them see you react emotionally. That's how you starve the narcissist of the supply they crave.
Host
That's practical advice. And I think it's worth noting that Jesus himself modeled low contact in some situations. He didn't always engage with the Pharisees. Sometimes he just walked away. In John chapter 8, when they brought the woman caught in adultery, he didn't argue with them; he stooped down and wrote in the sand. He disengaged from their trap.
Guest
That's a brilliant example. He didn't give them the emotional reaction they wanted. He stayed calm, he stayed in control, and he turned the situation around. That's what low contact looks like: not taking the bait, not getting drawn into their chaos.
Host
So for our listeners today, if you're wrestling with whether to go no contact or low contact, what's your final word of encouragement? What do you want them to take away from this conversation?
Guest
My advice is this: if you can go no contact, do it. It's the fastest path to healing. But if you can't, because of children or other unavoidable circumstances, then go low contact with fierce boundaries. And remember, you're not being unchristian. You're being wise. Jesus walked away when he needed to, and so can you.
Host
Amen. And before we close, I want to remind everyone that Shannon has incredible resources to help you on this journey. You can visit shannonalder.com to learn about the 90 Days to Freedom Workbook, which is a supplement to her new book on Life after Narcissism coming out next year. She's also creating a new course on how to Break the Trauma Bond in 90 days. All of that can be found on her website. And don't forget to follow us on all podcast platforms, and stop by Staying Positive University on Facebook for uplifting quotes about emotional abuse.
Guest
Thank you, Jake. And I just want to say to everyone listening: you are not alone, and you are not crazy. What you've experienced is real, and there is hope. You can break free and find peace. God sees you, and he is with you.
Host
Now, as we wrap up, I want to read a scripture that speaks to overcoming abuse. From Psalm 34:18: 'The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.' And let me pray for you. Father God, we lift up every person listening who has been hurt by a narcissist. We ask for your healing, your protection, and your wisdom. Give them the courage to set boundaries, to walk away when necessary, and to trust that you are with them. Restore their joy and their sense of worth. In Jesus' name, amen.
Guest
Amen. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Take care of yourselves, and remember that you are worthy of love and respect.
Host
God bless, and we'll see you next time on the Toxic Podcast.