September 2, 2026
Host
Welcome back to the Toxic Podcast, everyone. I'm Pastor Jake O'Connel, and today we have a very special cohost with us, Shannon L. Alder, relationship life coach and author of the best-selling book, The Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Bible. Shannon, thank you for joining us.
Guest
Thanks, Jake. I'm really glad to be here and talk about this topic that's so close to my heart. It's an honor to share with your listeners.
Host
Today we're diving into covert narcissistic abuse, specifically when everyone thinks they're nice. Shannon, you have a personal story that really illustrates this perfectly. Can you share it with us?
Guest
Absolutely. It's a story that took me years to process, but I think it will help a lot of people who are going through something similar. It's not easy to talk about, but it's necessary.
Host
Take your time. We're all ears, and I know our listeners appreciate your vulnerability.
Guest
Well, I met this man, let's call him Mark. He was charming, funny, and everyone loved him. He was the life of the party, always helping others, and people would say, 'Oh, you're so lucky to have him.' I thought I had found my soulmate.
Host
That sounds like the perfect guy on the surface. So what was going on behind closed doors?
Guest
Exactly. But behind closed doors, it was a different story. He would criticize me constantly, belittle my achievements, and make me feel like I was never good enough. But only when we were alone. In public, he'd hold my hand and act like the perfect boyfriend.
Host
So he saved his abuse for you, while showing a completely different face to the world. That's the hallmark of covert narcissism, isn't it?
Guest
Yes. And that's what makes covert narcissism so insidious. You start to doubt your own reality because everyone else thinks he's wonderful. You wonder, 'Am I crazy? Is it really me?' It's a form of gaslighting that erodes your self-esteem.
Host
How did the relationship end? Was it a gradual thing or a sudden blow?
Guest
He broke up with me, but then he launched a smear campaign. He told all our mutual friends that I was crazy, jealous, and controlling. He painted himself as the victim, and everyone believed him. I lost friends overnight.
Host
That must have been devastating. How did you cope with that level of betrayal?
Guest
It was. I started to believe it myself. I thought, maybe I am the problem. Maybe I'm not datable. I spiraled into depression and self-doubt. I isolated myself because I felt like everyone was against me.
Host
But then something changed? You mentioned earlier that you found out something about him years later.
Guest
Years later, I found out he had been divorced three times. Three times! And each time, he had done the same thing: charmed everyone, then abused his wife behind closed doors, then smeared her after the divorce. It was a pattern.
Host
That's a pattern. So it wasn't just you. He was a serial abuser.
Guest
That was the first time I realized the Lord had spared me from a divorce. I had dodged a bullet. If I had married him, I would have been wife number four, going through the same cycle. God protected me even when I didn't see it.
Host
So you saw God's hand in that situation. That's a powerful testimony of divine intervention.
Guest
Absolutely. And now I'm married to a good Christian man who treats me with love and respect. It's a completely different life. I never thought I could trust again, but God healed my heart.
Host
That's a powerful testimony, Shannon. Thank you for sharing that. It gives hope to so many people who are in the middle of that darkness.
Guest
Thank you for letting me share. I hope it helps someone realize they're not alone and that there is a way out.
Host
Now, let's talk about why these covert narcissists make everyone like them but you. Why do they do that? What's the psychology behind it?
Guest
Well, it's all about image management. They need to be seen as perfect, so they invest heavily in their public persona. They're master manipulators who mirror people's desires and emotions. They study what makes people tick and then become that.
Host
So they're like chameleons? They adapt to whatever environment they're in?
Guest
Exactly. They adapt to whatever environment they're in. But with their intimate partner, they drop the mask because they feel they have control. They can let their true self out because they think you won't leave. They save their worst for the person closest to them.
Host
That's scary. But why do people believe them over the victim? It seems so unfair.
Guest
Because the narcissist is often more charismatic and convincing. They've spent years building a reputation as a great person, so when they accuse you, people are inclined to believe them. Plus, they often isolate you from your support network first, so you have no one to vouch for you.
Host
So the victim is left without allies. That's a double betrayal—first by the abuser, then by the community.
Guest
Right. And that's why it's so hard to make people believe your side of the story. But it's not impossible. You have to be strategic and patient.
Host
How can someone do that? What are the first steps to reclaiming your narrative?
Guest
First, document everything. Keep texts, emails, recordings if legal. Second, build a support network of people who know the real you. Third, don't try to convince everyone; focus on those who matter. And fourth, seek professional help if needed. Therapy can be a lifesaver.
Host
That's practical advice. But what if the narcissist is really good at playing the victim? What if they have everyone fooled, and no matter what you do, people still believe them? Isn't there a point where you just have to walk away?
Guest
Then you have to be patient. The truth often comes out eventually, like in my case with the three divorces. But you can't control what others believe; you can only control your own healing. Sometimes walking away is the healthiest choice, but that doesn't mean you give up on your truth.
Host
That's a hard truth. It requires a lot of faith to let go of the need for validation from others.
Guest
It is. But remember, God sees the truth, and He will vindicate you in His time. You don't need to prove yourself to everyone. Focus on your relationship with Him and your own healing.
Host
Amen to that. Now, before we wrap up, I want to remind everyone to visit shannonalder.com to learn about the 90 Days to Freedom Workbook, which is a supplement to her new book on Life after Narcissism coming out next year. She's also creating a new course on how to break the trauma bond in 90 days. All can be found on her website.
Guest
Yes, and I encourage everyone to check it out. It's designed to help you heal and reclaim your life. The workbook is a step-by-step guide to freedom from narcissistic abuse.
Host
Also, follow us on all podcast platforms, and stop by Staying Positive University on Facebook for uplifting quotes about emotional abuse. We'd love to connect with you there.
Guest
We'd love to connect with you there. It's a community of support and encouragement for anyone healing from emotional abuse.
Host
And now, as we close, I'd like to read a scripture that speaks to overcoming abuse. Psalm 34:18 says, 'The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit.' Let's pray. Father, we lift up all those listening who have experienced narcissistic abuse. Heal their wounds, restore their identity, and give them strength to move forward. In Jesus' name, amen.
Guest
Amen.
Host
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on the Toxic Podcast.